SHOW HIGHLIGHT CLIPS
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Bus166:
So we were talking a lot about the rules and a lot of the shit that a lot of the older writers have been
saying. It's crazy. I had another one of these conversations yesterday.
Kub:
Okay.
Bus166:
I think it was yesterday. It was another old school writer that was frustrated with the state of the scene
and kind of his more gripe was kind of around the trains and the way that people are doing trains now.
Kub:
Rightfully so.
Bus166:
Yeah. And so you did a lot of trains, right?
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
So when did you start doing trains?
Kub:
Late 90s. I would say 97, 98.
Bus166:
Okay.
Kub:
It's like the strong spree for me.
Bus166:
Yeah. So you remember it was a whole different ballgame then. Because I was telling some writers, I was
like, it's so weird now as an older writer, when you go into a train yard, it's hard to find a spot to paint.
Kub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Sure.
Bus166:
Whereas it was the opposite before. Remember when you'd go to the yard and there'd be like tons of
cars.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
And they would all be clean. But you'd see some graff like 10 cars down and you'd be like, I better go see
what that is. That could be a Charlie piece [inaudible 00:01:26]. You know what I mean?
Kub:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bus166:
Now it's like the complete opposite.
Kub:
Exact opposite.
Bus166:
So the conversation that I was having with this guy, I don't want to say his name because-
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
... I don't know if he wants to be.
Kub:
Got you.
Bus166:
But his thing was like, we kind of got into the topic of people just going in and painting and not being
mindful of leaving trash or being seen coming in and out, being seen by the train workers.
Kub:
Yes.
Bus166:
Whereas a lot of things, those were all kind of second nature to a certain degree. I did a lot of dumb shit.
I remember painting Budweiser in the daytime and that's dumb.
Kub:
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Bus166:
There's workers, they see you. It's, you're fucking it up for everybody.
Kub:
I can relate.
Bus166:
So I did the same shit. But at the same time, now we have What? Like thousands times more writers
doing it.
Kub:
Absolutely.
Bus166:
So I guess the topic that you and I were getting on was a lot of people were kind of griping about the
younger generation, but I feel like we should accept some responsibility for that.
Kub:
Completely. We need to take accountability for that. Yeah. It's funny. Let me just go back to what you
were saying about Budweiser because that stands out as when I was maybe mid 90s before running into
anybody who would school me on what not and what to do. It was just like that. The first line you just
see off the freeway. I say, "Oh, that's a train yard."
Kub:
Didn't matter what time of day was he just run up on them and do whatever we did. But yeah, that was
one of my first chase and arrest stories and just the beginning of the fuckery all together. Yeah.
Bus166:
Yeah.
Kub:
And it was just not knowing what we didn't know.
Bus166:
Yeah. So you get, I don't know, it's like when you talk about this stuff, you think like, Oh, well you should
know that. But, I don't know, it's like you kind of need to be checked in a way. It's like when you're
talking about graff I think there's this kind of a, obviously there's this rebellious shit because they're out
there doing crime and they're going against the system and all this kind of shit, whatever you want to
put labels on it, whatever.
Kub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bus166:
But within that we have or had, we still do an understanding amongst each other. These are kind of
things that you do and these are the kinds of things that you don't do.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
And so I kind of have a hard time with the word, rules because, I don't know, it doesn't sound right to
me. When people talk about rules of the game.
Kub:
Sure, sure.
Bus166:
It's like-
Kub:
Because of what the game represents in the first place, that just kind of goes against what we were
doing to rebel against whatever it was we were rebelling against at that moment. And did, I don't know,
I feel like the further along we've gone, the more popular that it's gotten, the more messy it's gotten.
The more 'writers' or crews or groups or whatever you want to call these individuals running around
doing what they're doing now.
Kub:
It's just gotten really messy and everybody's trying to set themselves apart like we did when we were
younger too from everybody else on next level of this or that or original this or original that. But like you
said, before having somebody put me under their wing, which again I'll leave his name out, I've got so
much love and respect for this man. And the thing is, the things he showed me, I would never have
guessed.
Kub:
I was really taken back by him, but I respected him. I respected his crew. So therefore what he said was
gold to me. And that was essential. He takes me to his favorite spot that's got just a beautiful line of
blank cars in the cut, in the dark, but right against the neighborhood. So from number one, you got to
watch where you park. You only park in this spot, not this spot.
Kub:
You don't pull out your streak and start doing tags right next to where you park your car. Just because
you want everybody else to know that you paint this train yard. First of all, you take a certain route
depending on what the time is or who is where and is this house up? Are these dogs still in the
backyard? Or whatever? You know the method to the madness around that, right?
Kub:
If you don't know how to jump a fence, which you should, you know how to cut one and you know
where to cut one where it doesn't look like we cut one. So that in and out can still be there. All those
little things, before I even made it to the tracks, I already felt like I was in school and then I just learned
some beautiful things. And-
Bus166:
Well, and that's kind of a, excuse me, I think you described it perfectly. I always gotten really messy and I
really don't ever want to come off the old guy telling people how to live their lives and shit. But I think
we should just establish why it is that these things exist. And it's kind of obvious but at the same time all
the stuff you're talking about, it's also that you don't fuck up that yard for everybody else and probably
your bully.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
Who is like, "Don't fuck this up for me. This is my spot."
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
"I'm going to show you this spot. So act right when you come here." So nowadays I feel like a lot of that
has gone. I only paint with one guy and I won't call him out either as far as trains go. And the reason that
I do that is because I know he's very, very careful. We'll walk past the entrance of the yard four or five
times before we go in because there's no cars.
Bus166:
If we're walking by and we're about to cut into the yard and a car comes up over the hill and we're like,
"Fuck, Keep walking."
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
And then go back. Don't let anybody see you get in there. So when you talk about it, it's gotten messy. I
think that's an important thing to understand. It's like what I was saying about rules. They're there so
that we have an understanding of how to maintain this thing that we do. So when you talk about yard
politics and stuff, some people get a little rubbed the wrong way. They're like, "I'll do whatever the fuck I
want."
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
"I'll go over whoever the fuck I want."
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
That's cool. Do whatever you got to do. If that's the way you want to do it, that's the way, but
understand that you're going to rub people the wrong way. If you go over a 12 color piece with a black
and silver-.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
That's a statement that you've made there. So I was looking at some old flicks and somebody sent me
one where a guy, I'm not going to name his name, but I don't know why, but we had beef in the 90s. I
don't know what I did to get this beef, but he started capping all my stuff.
Kub:
Really?
Bus166:
Yeah, just like bubbles over my pieces.
Kub:
Uh-huh(affirmative).
Bus166:
So obviously I did something. But the thing is, I was very careful back then. So I don't think that I did
anything disrespectful to this person, but the perception as far, my guests, I never ran into him. I'm kind
of glad I did, because people told me he was a psych. Didn't because people were like, "He's a
psychopath." And I was like, "Fuck." I hope I don't ever run into him and I don't want to fucking...
Bus166:
So anyway, there's repercussions to all this stuff you do. So even a perception of what you did. So my
guess, that's totally a guess I probably painted a spot and he thought I capped him, but I was always like,
I try not to go over people unless their piece was dissed. That's what people always told me.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
As soon as it's dissed it's fair game. But if you go over something, even if you go over an eight color piece
with a 12 color piece, if that eight color piece was clean, just leave it alone. So...
Kub:
I get that. And I know we touched on it, but I definitely, and I know you can agree with this, as we're
diving into this whole thing, I completely taken responsibility and accountability for why. I'm taking my
part, I know my part and why these things have been happening. I'm not saying it's because of me, but if
I wasn't doing something to improve this, then I was just as much of the problem. And that's why this
conversation is so beautiful and why I know you can relate to all these things.
Bus166:
Absolutely.
Kub:
And I don't know if I was going back to what you just said. I don't know if I was ever taught specifically
this or if it's something that I just thought of myself. But yeah, when it came to something like that and
to taking up this space in the spot that's already got this and that on it, I cap that shit properly with the
background with everything that it couldn't be misunderstood that I capped this because there was like
four layers but mine didn't quite go to the end of the third guy behind me piece. So it looks like I was the
first one on, you know what I'm saying?
Bus166:
Yeah. I know exactly what you are saying.
Kub:
You handle the whole situation properly and you cover it beautifully and all that so there is no mistake.
But then there's always going to be the guy who's fucking not in his right mind or just uneducated, that's
going to take it a certain way and while your ass looked like the way he wrote his girlfriends ass or like
whatever, who fucking knows?
Bus166:
Yeah. You can't avoid.
Kub:
You can even avoid the [inaudible 00:11:45].
Bus166:
Some things you can't avoid. I mean, that's a good point because if there's things you can avoid and
again, my assumption of why this person had beef with me is, he was probably walking by a yard or
what have you as a freeway spot. For all I know, let's say it was a freeway spot that had gotten buffed
and then I hit it.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
He's driving by, he's like, "I had to throwie there."
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
Now Bus has a throwie.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
Fuck that guy.
Kub:
Yeah. He hadn't pass by for a week.
Bus166:
Right.
Kub:
No idea what happened.
Bus166:
So if you already have those kind of possibilities of just, you did everything right.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
You could still fuck up. It's better to do everything properly like you said, if you do some shit over a big
ass piece and all their shits hanging out the side-
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
... There's people that are going to assume that that's the statement. And so those are kind of the things
that I wanted to talk about as far as why these 'Rules' are in place. It's not to restrict people and it's not
to be one generation telling another generation what to do. It's like, hey, we go into this thing with a
mutual understanding. And these are the things that we've, I don't know, collectively decided.
Kub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). This is what's worked.
Bus166:
Right.
Kub:
This is what's kept things surviving in a sense.
Bus166:
Yeah. So if you have a tag and somebody goes over it with throwie-
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
... There's no problem. If you have a throwie, somebody goes over it with a simple clean, straight letter
and there's no problem. If somebody goes over anything with a fug full color piece.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
We don't have an issue.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
Obviously there's some people that are going to have an issue.
Kub:
Regardless. Yeah.
Bus166:
If it's a tag and you go over it with a 20 hour long piece, they're still going to be pissed, "That was my
tag."
Kub:
Furious. Yeah.
Bus166:
Right. But for the most part in general, we have an understanding that those hierarchy or whatever you
want to call it is in place.
Kub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bus166:
And so going back again to your accepting responsibility. I also feel the same way because my active
graff career, if you want to call it that, went a certain span and then I went to college, sort of dropped
off the graff scene, focused on my career. After college I spent time building my business and I'd never
checked in on the scene.
Kub:
Right. Right.
Bus166:
I had all these mentors coming up. I had people checking me when I did things wrong.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
And then I stepped away. I feel like I should have, it would have been hard for me to do that because of
the circumstances.
Kub:
Of your occupied with what you are doing.
Bus166:
Right.
Kub:
You feel you zipped up all that knowledge in your backpack and took it with you.
Bus166:
Yeah. I just left.
Kub:
I get it. Sure.
Bus166:
So if I didn't stick around to at least check in and actively try to meet young people and say, "Hey, this is
how we did it and this is why it worked. That was a good point what you said. This is what we've
established works."
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
If I'm not sticking around, I didn't have to be involved in the culture but I could have used whatever
notoriety or, I don't know what the right term is, but people at that time knew who I was. I was still
fresh. Not fresh like the term I was fresh, my graff was still existing on the streets.
Kub:
Yeah. Sure.
Bus166:
So that was a good opportunity for me to be like, hey, you're getting into the culture if you've drove
through downtown, you know who I am most likely at that time.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
Those are the people that those kids are going to listen to. The people that are up doing what they want
to do?
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
Now I'm 46 years old.
Kub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bus166:
My shit hasn't been running for the time that they've been alive. There's kids that have been born and I
have no illegal graff on the streets anymore. They only know who I am because of Instagram or they're
older homies.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
So I missed a really prime opportunity to pass that knowledge down as, because right now if you think
like 17, 18 year old kids, they're looking at like 25, 28 whatever year old people that have been smashing
for several years.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
And so yeah, I got to take responsibility for stepping away at a perfect time to pass this shit down.
Kub:
I get it. It's interesting. I don't know if it's like, I'm trying to regroup my thoughts, I don't know if it's the
lazy version, is this is what I was going to say? That makes me feel as if regardless of the age of the ones
coming up in the generation of these youngsters younger generation doing this. I don't know if it's the
lazy version in my head that's saying, the ones who are really about this and that are really doing the
damn thing have done their fucking homework.
Kub:
And they do know exactly who you are. Whether they channeled it from another branch of an affiliate
from this or that or because they're fucking in it and they're doing their history, they're reading, they're
learning, where was I going with this?
Kub:
Taking responsibility and accountability for it, of course. But I also feel that this platform, and if you are
standing in a yard right now today, there's still a wave of young ones that would hear you loud and
fucking clear. Just the same. But I get it. I understand when you got your stuff running on a freeway or
on or this or that and everyone, "Oh my fucking God." And then they run into you somewhere. It's a
whole nother glazed over a fucking love.
Bus166:
Yeah. It's a different thing.
Kub:
It's a different thing. They're taking everything you're saying and it's all gold to them. They don't even
need to do any homework. Whatever you say goes Mr you're up on this freeway.
Bus166:
To a certain degree of course.
Kub:
Yeah. I know, of course.
Bus166:
Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I think you and I are on the same page. And I think I don't get the
impression that a lot of people are on that same page just from conversations and I'm not trying to put
us on a different level of anybody. It's just I think it's not human nature to take this kind of responsibility
and as a 46 year old man, I didn't even fucking think about this kind of shit until two years ago.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
I don't even know. Maybe even less. It was like I'm reading and listening and learning and doing all these
kinds of things to try to improve myself. And I'm coming across this information, like what I was talking
to you about. If you pass a piece of trash on the street then you don't throw that away, then it's now
your problem or whatever that is.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
I didn't make that up. That was something I heard on from Andy Frisella.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
So I kind of don't feel like it's really human nature to take ownership of things like that.
Kub:
Absolutely not.
Bus166:
So...
Kub:
It's like when we started. Human nature for us when we started was, I'm selfish as fuck and I'm going to
be better than this guy and up more than that guy and fuck you. You're not going to know how we do
this. I'm not going to show you where our spots are at, where we rack our shit, how we do this, how we
get these effects, what tips we did it.
Kub:
Now it's like, here's the thing, that's human nature as far as I'm concerned. That dog eat dog, survival of
the fittest kind of mentality and only through experiencing other things in my life and trying to apply
these same values and traditions in a sense to everything I do, do I now see how important it is to lift up
the next guy.
Kub:
Because either way they're assuming position and consuming what we're feeding them. So we might as
well be feeding them something that's going to benefit all of us in a sense. Because we are all in this
together. It's interesting especially talking about graff because everybody's very prideful because we are
this and we've been here longer or we've been up more, we've traveled more, we've hit higher, We've
whatever that thing is.
Kub:
You take that away and people are all going to be scratching their fucking heads. If we just kind of
dropped that and just join as one. That just sounds fucking crazy.
Bus166:
Yeah.
Kub:
Just even saying it out of my mouth right now. But in a sense that's kind of what it comes down to flip it.
Bus166:
Well, I think something on our conversation that's sort of started this whole partnership or whatever
you want to call it.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
One thing that I felt like we both had this moment where we're like, "Oh fuck." The idea of burning the
spot. Right?
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
So a lot of people don't grasp the concept. I had a conversation with a kid, I guess he's not a kid, but he's
a young guy.
Kub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bus166:
Again, not calling anybody out, not talking shit, because I did the same fucking thing he did.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
He was in the store, very respectful, shook my hand, much respect, all this kind of shit, [inaudible
00:21:57]. But then when he left, he caught big old tack on my next door neighbor's building. Literally
right there.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
And it was during business hours, there's people all over the place. Somebody saw him leave the store.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
And walk right next door and not just the marker tag, big old spray paint tag.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
And when I called him on it, next time I saw him I was like, "Hey man, did you do that?" And he's like,
"Oh man, I'm really sorry."[inaudible 00:22:28]. And the conversation did a little back and forth and I
told him, I said, "You know better than that." I don't know the kid. I don't know that he knows better
than that but I assumed that he did. And he said, "You know what man, I don't know better than that."
And I was like, "Fuck, he really doesn't know better than that."
Kub:
And [inaudible 00:22:44]. Exactly.
Bus166:
And I can't talk shit to him because I did the fucking same thing. I walked out a motor yard in the day
time and caught a huge tag like a fucking four foot tall fat cap tag in the day time, rush hour traffic and I
got checked for it. It was like you don't do that shit. You fucking just this nag. You're burning the spot.
People saw you come out of there, they saw that [inaudible 00:23:13] all that shit.
Kub:
Because you assumed their reaction would be the opposite.
Bus166:
Right. Look at me, I'm a graff writer.
Kub:
Exactly. Day time fucking four foot, what up?
Bus166:
Yeah. Exactly. So the idea of-
Kub:
Fuck, I turned the levels up too high on mine.
Bus166:
...The idea of burning the spot-
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
...It's not like as common sense as it is after somebody tells you about it.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
You should know better, but most of us didn't know better and we did this stupid shit, whatever it was.
So going back to the original point of things being messy, taking ownership.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
Unifying everybody and all that sort of stuff. The sort of moment that you and I had that we both kind of
clicked was all of this shit that's happening, all of the, the loss of the rules, I keep going back to it.
Kub:
I don't know another word for lack of a better word just, yeah.
Bus166:
Yeah. All of that being kind of non-existent or exists less, It's burning the whole spot, the culture.
Kub:
Yes.
Bus166:
So it's going to make everything more difficult for everybody. So if you're talking about burning the spot
like this gallery here, if you go and you do that shit we may get shut down or we may not be welcome in
this neighborhood. But imagine if collectively all of this kind of behavior makes it way more difficult for
us to even do anything.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
We won't have yards. All the train yards will be banned. Having a graff shop will be super difficult.
Unless we kind of just make people aware that these guidelines are there to help maintain the culture.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
It's not about controlling you and telling you, "I'm older, you better show me respect." I haven't earned
your respect unless you know me and I've shown you respect. So it's not about that. And at the same
time, I don't ever want to come off like anything I'm saying is facts because I don't know. This is what I
think.
Kub:
Yeah, this is our opinion. Yeah, exactly. I was going to say the same, it's not like we're rolling up a
newspaper and slap him on the nose like, no. It's yo, I want you that to go and collect more supplies and
add to your fucking photo album. And the way you will do that is by doing this. Oh shit, I might actually
want to join the one that I kind of want to paint that spot [inaudible 00:25:48]. Lets keep that shit going.
And I mean the basics, man. Even my favorite spot to this day is hot as fuck now.
Kub:
And I know why. And it's the oldest and most simple things just leaving shit. I remember running in, I
don't know if I'm going off topic, but I could not believe my eyes. One of the more popular spots we
know of in this particular area. And me and my partner we're creeping in just doing what we needed to
do, stealth. Got in there. We were just like, "All right, this is going to be a good morning. It's going to be
a good set."
Kub:
And there was maybe 12 to 15 kids drinking, phones had music on. It was a fucking backyard barbecue
between the lines. I couldn't even fucking believe my eyes. And it was totally normal. None of them
were tripping. They sent one of their scouts up towards us to see who we were, like hit us up, this is
their barbecue spot now. I just couldn't fucking believe it.
Bus166:
I see it on Instagram all the time. People posting in the daytime and they're holding a 40 in the train
yard. And it's like, fuck. Dude, I'm not trying to hate on you, but that's just not a good way to go about it.
If you really want, especially now with so many fucking people painting trains.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
I don't know about the railroads or whether or not if they have an issue. They have to be somewhat like,
this is bullshit having to paint these numbers back all the time.
Kub:
They definitely not still [crosstalk 00:27:32] any of this.
Bus166:
How much money must that cost them? And so at the same time, there's so much of it that they're like,
"What the fuck are we going to do?"
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
But I don't know that. There could be some shit where something just happens where they're like,
"Look, we've had enough of this shit."
Kub:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Bus166:
How much money do they have? Who knows?
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
Who knows?
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
So there's no reason not to take some precautions.
Kub:
Oh, absolutely.
Bus166:
What you're talking about is just crazy.
Kub:
Yeah. It's nuts. And it's going to be one of us by ourselves who gets rolled one day and that takes
responsibility for all this shit. They're just going to nail somebody for everything they'd been doing in the
past for other things.
Bus166:
Yeah. It's happened.
Kub:
Absolutely.
Bus166:
We know people that done real prison time over that and people that have died doing this shit. It's not
like it's not dangerous, what's happening.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
So like...
Kub:
More to your point is, it's like that live fast, die young. It's like the sloppier and the more, just this display
of lack of any kind of respect for anything that's going on I fear it's going to be short lived or something
else is going to happen that I can't even project in my mind if I even tried. But I definitely don't love the
direction it's headed in the way that I see things.
Kub:
Not to mention when you look at a line now, it's just like, Ugh. And then maybe you see one fucking hot
one and then, Ugh. Like another stretch and it's terrible.
Bus166:
Yeah. And that should be something else that should be considered because if you are a 'real writer' and
you want to progress in this culture, there's no reason to, I'm trying to collect myself.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
There's every reason to take all these precautions now more than ever. Because if you think about,
there's little kids on TikTok that are talking about being graffiti writers and there's tens of what? Millions
of people on Instagram. I don't know how fucking many people, probably billion. I don't know. I have no
concept of how many people, but you have this wide open thing where the point of entry is way easier
now.
Bus166:
If you remember back in the day you could just like, I don't know, let's take for example in the 80s when
I was a skate. I stole a can of spray paint from my dad's garage and I went down to the local fucking
wash and painted all these skateboarding logos and shit like that. So I was doing graffiti, right?
Kub:
Yeah. Right.
Bus166:
Wasn't real graff, was fluorescent orange paint that my dad used on his tools and shit. And so we did all
this ugly ass shit. So were doing technically graffiti we were part of the graph culture obviously.
Kub:
Sure.
Bus166:
So there was that entry point before the internet. But the entry to get into actual graffiti and be part of
the actual culture, it was very difficult. Remember? You couldn't just pick a name and go and start, I
mean you could, but that's generally not how it worked. You had to meet other graffiti writers and get
introduced to other graffiti writers and they would sort of tell you like, "Oh, don't paint that wall. It's a
bust."
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
Or "This wall is a buff, if you painted it, it's just going to be gone tomorrow. There's no point in risking."
Little things would get passed down right there. And so the point of entry was a little more complex to
get in there. But now with all of the information right on anybody's phone, a seven year old kid can look
at all kinds of different graffiti and get all kinds of different ideas and pick a name and go right.
Bus166:
Not that he couldn't do that before, it just wasn't as wide open as it is now. So I kinda got off track, but
the point was, if you really want to be a real graff writer and part of this culture, it would be to your
benefit to instill these kind of guidelines now more than ever.
Kub:
Absolutely.
Bus166:
Even more important than in the 90s or 80s is there's far more people doing it. To your point about the
lines, that means there's probably thousands of times more people going in and out of the train yards
than there used to be.
Kub:
Definitely. You just made a great point. And we could do an entire show just on that, just social media
and graff and how it's gone. Just art in general. But we'll stick to just graffiti. And for people like myself, I
was lucky enough to grow up obviously before cell phones and before the internet and all these
different things, you just heard. Which were people in your circle, in my area and me and my young
friends would sneak in and take stacks of peace books and flip through them.
Kub:
And then if we're lucky enough, we'd hang out with the few of them at a barbecue. And hear some shit.
And that point of entry of even just having a conversation, I mean if first of all, being passionate enough
about that world to want to have a part in that. And then when you just got a little snippet of a
conversation or acknowledgement or an okay or he throws you a tee shirt.
Kub:
Or like, "Come with me to Venice and watch us paint." And that was fucking amazing. So for me, I took
that very serious. This is a privilege right now. So anything that I hear and anything that I see, man, I
retain that. And it wasn't all positive and we can talk about that and later, things like, but I retained
everything. And so it felt like a badge of honor in a sense.
Kub:
Every little move or every bit closer you got. Or, like I said, acknowledgement or just being able to be in
that area or be around it and now fuck. These kids origin stories starts in their pocket with their iPhone
like you said. And there is no fluorescent spray paint that we rack out of the garage in our neighborhood
and go down to the wash. It's like they go straight to fucking Instagram, freight trains, billboards,
bridges.
Kub:
Okay. So they take that fluorescent shit to the train yard and to them that's what we're seeing on the
fucking train everywhere else. It's not like, I don't know, I'm not saying that there's not a lot of fucking
very respected writers in this world that started that way with their first can, went to a train yard or
what their first can hit a fucking billboard or a bridge because I'm sure there's enough.
Kub:
But the percentage of kids that are going from, it's like they didn't start with the throw up to the straight
letter to the piece, to the whatever, they just went straight wild style fucking straight out the gate, like
on your fucking garage.
Bus166:
Yeah.
Kub:
It's just like, I don't know, and it's intimidating in a sense. There's so many positive things about social
media and there's so many negative things about it, right? In my opinion. But I think that's a big part of
the problem. Is what they see in their phone right off the back. Because it's not TikTok that they're
looking at. The kid doing the stars and circles.
Kub:
They're seeing some fucking masterpieces immediately and thinking that they need to be on that
fucking level and there's no one there to school them. To show them kind of step by step process to
whatever it might be. And I'm not even saying that I'm that one, but I know that there's definitely a
fucking process. And I know I didn't just jump from this to this.
Bus166:
Yeah. I hear what you're saying 100%. It's like, and I don't know for sure. I'm sure a lot of these kids have
older people that are giving them some of this knowledge, but it would just appear that there's not, and
I think, dog growling just distracted this.
Kub:
He wants to get in on this. It's like I got some shit to say. Yeah.
Bus166:
Hold on a sec.
Kub:
It's all right.
Bus166:
Well, I'm going to have to go in there. So... I'm going to pause this.
Kub:
And add more to your point, just before I forget this, I completely agree that there's definitely some
pioneers out there that are schooling the younger, their kids or their grandkids or their neighbors or
their nephews or whatever it might be. Oh, let's not forget the females and how important they are to
everything here. That's a whole nother topic I want to jump into.
Bus166:
Oh, yeah.
Kub:
But the female writers, I don't know, I guess because I'm not so tuned in to the social media scene or I'm
not at every event shaking hands and talking to every person in the past few years, that maybe there is a
lot more of this wave going on, but my eyes don't see it when I'm driving around. When I'm in the yards,
when I'm anywhere else, I sure as fuck don't see it. So if it is happening, where?
Kub:
I'm not sure where, but again, it doesn't mean it's not, I'm not fucking everywhere. But I'm definitely
feel like there's more of a need now for any kind of positive information, a spillover than I've ever seen
before.
Bus166:
Yeah. And so to follow up on that, I am on social media a lot. I fucking study it analytically, all that kind
of shit. I don't know if analytically is a word, is it? I don't know. Sounds weird.
Kub:
I'm not sure. I think it is.
Bus166:
But I kind of look at the data and I'm not really looking at it like a ego flex kind of thing. I really dig in,
look at the numbers and all that kind of bullshit. But the point is I am watching all that stuff and then
having this shop, I'm here every day.
Kub:
Of course.
Bus166:
So I meet people every day and I hear, I wish my dog would stop crawling, I hear a lot of the older
people and when the topic of youngsters comes up, it's like a really common thread. Like, "Oh, they
have no respect, they don't this, they don't that." And so I know that there's some shit going on and not
everybody knows, I'm not everybody, but I think it's pretty obvious that there are some issues that
would need to be resolved.
Bus166:
It's not anything different than what I heard when I was young too, because there a meeting. When I
was just getting into the scene and they didn't say who it was, but I'm pretty sure it was directed at me.
But there were talking about, he is [inaudible 00:39:11]. Yeah. I was sitting there thinking like, fuck, I
think they're talking about me. So we're in a meeting. Right?
Kub:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bus166:
And so I'm new to the game and I'm there with some of the biggest names in graff at the time in LA
graff. And my mentor is talking and he's saying, I can't remember the words, but he was saying, "When
the new booties come in and you start doing this and that, you have to show the older generation
respect and you can't be doing this." And I don't remember what it was, but I know it was me.
Kub:
New booty fuck.
Bus166:
Yeah. And I was like, "I'm a new booty. I'm newest booty here." You know what I mean. And so I think
that's always been there. The youngsters don't have respect or whatever that is. That then isn't a new
concept-
Kub:
Of course.
Bus166:
... Of older people saying that the young generation has no respect. But I think we keep going back to
this, the volume of people that are in the culture now.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
It's making it worse. So if you have say 500 new writers coming into the scene in LA in 93 I don't know
that number is even accurate or not, but then you flash forward here, maybe it's 5,000 new writers or
10,000. Who knows? The numbers are so huge that there can't possibly be enough people mentoring all
of these new writers.
Kub:
That's [inaudible 00:40:49].
Bus166:
There's no way.
Kub:
Right.
Bus166:
So I don't know what the answer is. I think us taking responsibility could help. I'm not saying we're going
to solve this, we're going to fucking tackle this issue.
Kub:
No. Of course.
Bus166:
But maybe little spark of-
Kub:
Absolutely.
Bus166:
And maybe...
Kub:
Reflect somewhere else that'll reflect somewhere else.
Bus166:
Yes.
Kub:
Absolutely.
Bus166:
So hopefully as older writers, more of us can take responsibility and say, "Look it's fine, go ahead and
complain about the young generation." That's what older people do. It's kind of a thing. But, what if
more of us took responsibility and tried to tell these kids why what they're doing is going to cause
problems for other writers and for themselves.
Kub:
Yeah.
Bus166:
And that's could transition into a whole another episode, which is going down the rabbit hole of drugs
and incarceration, all these kinds of things that when you're young there's an invisibility like, I don't give
a fuck.
Kub:
Of course.
Bus166:
I've never been to prison or anything like that. But I would imagine that as soon as you get in there
you're like, "Fuck this kind of sucks."
Kub:
Fuck. No question.
Bus166:
So we can save that for another time. But I think I feel like we've, I don't know if we've covered
everything, I think it was just more of like planning a spark of taking responsibility for, we could do
something as older writers or even not even older writers, just writers that know shit. It doesn't have to
be the older generation just has to be somebody with the knowledge.
Kub:
That's right.
Bus166:
Passing the knowledge on. So if you're 16 and your dad is a fucking writer and you know more shit than
this 18 year old that you're riding with, pass that knowledge onto him or her and help them get through
the culture and don't burn the spot. The whole spot. The whole culture.
Kub:
The whole culture.
Bus166:
You can burn the whole thing if we all collectively don't give a fuck.
Kub:
That's right. And I think the most powerful thing that I'm getting from this entire situation and the roots
that have been exposed here and what's to come from it is, yes, we can complain and grovel over shit
like anybody would over the things that have happened and changed. But what are we doing about it?
What's the solution? And this is where it starts for me.
Bus166:
For me too.
Kub:
I know it does and that's what's beautiful in it. There's so many directions we can segue into, which we'll
breed room for the next and the next session. Right? But, yeah man, it's a beautiful thing to just be
aware, which is other things I'm going through, which we'll touch on at another point, but being aware
of my part and then what am I doing about it now?
Kub:
Okay. That's what it was. That's not what I wanted it to be. What am I doing about it now? And how
quickly that can spread just as well the darker side can spread. So why not shine some more light?
Bus166:
Yeah, I totally agree. And I think more people that are adopting this responsibility, it could ride the ship
and it could turn into a better culture than it used to be. Because it kind of sucks that you're always
looking back to this shit that happened 20, 30 years ago. I guess 20 years ago isn't even that long. That
was 2000, dude.
Kub:
It's crazy, Right?
Bus166:
What the fuck is going On?.
Kub:
I can't even believe that's 20 years ago.
Bus166:
So a lot of people are saying, "Oh, 90 was the golden era of graff." As a 90s writer, I looked fondly on the
80s and the 70s because I was like, "Fuck, that was the subway shit and stuff." So I mean...
Kub:
Sure. Of course.
Bus166:
We could look back and say it's never going to be like that. Of course. Like we're not going to carry
fucking beepers and do whatever, I mean, taking flicks on our fucking disposable cameras and stealing
the friends from Walmart [crosstalk 00:45:10]. It wasn't even Walmart.
Kub:
Oh shit. Clark's drugs and couple of others. Yeah, that's great.
Bus166:
So instead of have your nostalgia, why don't we try to make 2020 the next or whatever the 20s.
Kub:
Yes.
Bus166:
We're in the 20s.
Kub:
What better year for clarity and vision than 2020. Until I open up the fucking eyes and stop sleeping on
so many different things. And I know there's going to be people that are going to come at this like, "It's
fucking evolution, this is how things evolve and change and this is what it is." This is how the younger
generation is going to change things that we think we know but don't to some degree but I don't know. I
think we've touched on some very strong and valid points that should be preserved. No question.
Bus166:
I think we pretty much, sufficiently, beat a dead horse.
Kub:
Feels good about it. That's what's up.
Bus166:
All right. So we've got a website, graffitimachine.com. We will have the episode there. We'll have little
clips and highlights from that. Some episodes will probably have some photos and links to share. It's
going to be a good time to check it out.
Kub:
Beautiful thing. Yes sir.
Bus166:
Kub, you want to shout out your social media?
Kub:
Yes. If you are so inclined you can follow me on sirkub. I would appreciate that.
Bus166:
And you can follow me @Bus166 to see my graffiti stuff. This podcast comes from machine studio out
here in San Pedro. You can follow us on Instagram @machinestudio.
Kub:
Yes. And we do appreciate all of you who take the time to listen.
Bus166:
Yeah, thank you guys very much. Much appreciated.
Kub:
Stay up.
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