00:00:03
All right, I'm still getting used to all
this video shit.
00:00:06
So I don't know.
00:00:08
I know I'm supposed to look at the camera.
00:00:10
It's supposed to be more engaging, I
guess.
00:00:12
But I got notes right here and I don't
know.
00:00:15
We'll see how it goes.
00:00:16
I don't know.
00:00:17
I'm gonna do my best.
00:00:18
I'll probably get, I'll get better as we
go.
00:00:19
But this one might be a little weird.
00:00:21
So if you're on YouTube, I might be a
little all over the place.
00:00:24
Plus I'm in this weird room here that I
don't know.
00:00:28
Doesn't look that interesting back there.
00:00:29
It doesn't matter.
00:00:30
Let's just fucking get into this.
00:00:31
All right, so.
00:00:34
I'll jump into why this episode started.
00:00:37
I was listening to Jordan Peterson
interview, and they were talking about he
00:00:43
was talking to a guy that's a skeptic and
yeah, I don't I don't know.
00:00:48
The conversation was kind of over my head
to be honest.
00:00:50
But one thing that he Jordan Peterson said
was he doesn't like to argue because
00:00:56
you're you're never sufficiently correct.
00:00:58
And that's something that I've been
thinking a lot about lately.
00:01:02
Over the last
00:01:03
like several years since I read the book,
How to Win Friends and Influence People,
00:01:08
because they said something in there.
00:01:09
And I have in my notes to get to that a
little later.
00:01:11
But it kind of makes sense to to just
touch on that real briefly is he would
00:01:19
say, you know, when you're going to start
a conversation with somebody or or try to
00:01:23
give somebody feedback on something,
instead of saying, you know, this is how
00:01:28
it is, or this is how it should be done.
00:01:30
And speaking as if
00:01:31
you're 100 % certain that you're right.
00:01:34
Even if you are, he was saying that it's
good to, to say something like, you know,
00:01:40
I might be wrong on this, I often am or
something like that, like, hey, I might be
00:01:44
wrong.
00:01:45
But this is how I see this happening.
00:01:47
This is this is, I could see this being
the best way to to accomplish this thing.
00:01:52
So I thought about that a lot.
00:01:55
And I've told this to people where, you
know, I may be confident on a subject, but
00:02:00
like,
00:02:01
I try to remember that I can always be
wrong.
00:02:04
So no matter how well researched or you
know, how far you look into stuff like
00:02:11
there's, there's always a chance that
you're wrong.
00:02:13
So I think it's, I feel like that part of
the book really stuck with me because I
00:02:18
just really feel like it's a lot easier to
have a conversation with somebody if you
00:02:22
already are kind of taking the approach
that, you know, you believe in what you're
00:02:29
saying, but, but you know, you can be
wrong.
00:02:31
So let's see, where am I at?
00:02:33
Let's see what my notes have here.
00:02:35
So, I don't, I mean, these things are
somewhat related, but well, they are
00:02:41
related, but they're kind of like
different ways of looking at this type of
00:02:44
stuff.
00:02:45
So if I go to the extreme and think like,
I could be wrong about anything, like you
00:02:52
could go all the way to the extreme, like
I could be wrong about the fact that I'm
00:02:56
standing in this room talking to this
camera.
00:03:00
Like, I don't know.
00:03:01
if you want to get real weird about it,
like none of this could really even be
00:03:04
real, you know, this could all be a dream
or a simulation or some weird shit like
00:03:08
that.
00:03:08
Like we don't know 100 % with 100 %
certainty of that, but that that's
00:03:13
probably a little too far out there.
00:03:15
But I'll get into some more practical
stuff.
00:03:18
So one thing I have written down here is
like our perception of reality is
00:03:24
subjective.
00:03:25
And so
00:03:28
If you take, for example, if you go
outside and you look up in the skies is
00:03:32
blue, you know, there's a lot of different
ways to look at that.
00:03:36
Like, is the sky really blue or is that
just the R the way our eyes are
00:03:41
interpreting the light?
00:03:42
And if you think about, you know,
different species, like different bugs and
00:03:47
different animals and shit, they see the
sky as a completely different color.
00:03:50
And so,
00:03:53
you know, you could be wrong about that,
even though you're looking up and you're
00:03:55
like, I'm 100 % certain that I'm looking
at a blue sky, but then maybe maybe that's
00:04:01
not right.
00:04:03
And another example, something that just
happened to me recently, Jesse was showing
00:04:07
me this image, and you might have seen
this, it's like this thing that went
00:04:10
viral.
00:04:11
And it's, it's like a blue dress.
00:04:14
Well, I shouldn't say it's a blue dress.
00:04:18
The way I saw it was a black and blue
striped dress.
00:04:22
And so Jesse showed that to me and she
said, what color is this dress?
00:04:25
And I said, it's black and blue stripes,
you know, black stripes and blue stripes.
00:04:30
She saw white and gold.
00:04:34
And apparently, when you look at this
online, I think if you look at I think if
00:04:40
you just type in the dress, it's like this
super mega viral thing because people are
00:04:46
arguing about this shit because people are
seeing it.
00:04:50
completely different and Jesse and I saw
it completely different.
00:04:54
dogs barking.
00:04:55
I don't know how long she's gonna do that
for hopefully not too long.
00:04:59
But
00:05:05
Maybe lose my train of thought.
00:05:08
So it was really strange because when she
showed it to me, I cannot see gold and
00:05:14
white.
00:05:14
I can't see it.
00:05:15
But she sees gold and white.
00:05:18
I see black and blue.
00:05:21
So something, if I looked at that picture
and somebody was like, what picture?
00:05:27
Well, I mean, that happened.
00:05:28
But like, I, there's people that are
arguing about it and it's like,
00:05:34
I can't argue that because that's just
what I'm seeing.
00:05:38
I can't tell her you're seeing it wrong
because that wouldn't make any sense.
00:05:44
But if you think of it from another
standpoint, if you're arguing about just
00:05:48
about anything, you know, like I saw an
argument about the relation of graffiti
00:05:53
and hip hop, you know, and there's some
debate about that.
00:05:55
And people were arguing very strongly on
one side or the other, like hip hop is a
00:06:01
graffiti is a part of hip hop and
00:06:03
other people are arguing graffiti predated
hip hop and all this stuff.
00:06:08
And it's like, I think about things like
that when I'm reading those kind of
00:06:13
arguments, because I'm like, nobody really
can say with 100 % certainty, what the
00:06:19
real answer is.
00:06:20
Because there's all these different
perceptions, and even people that were
00:06:23
there during the time, they're perceiving
that shit happening in the way that
00:06:28
they're perceiving it.
00:06:29
It doesn't necessarily mean it's right.
00:06:31
It's the way that they're perceiving it.
00:06:33
So I find that stuff really interesting.
00:06:35
Let's see, let's, let's check the notes.
00:06:38
What were we at?
00:06:42
on a side thing, I don't have it here and
I don't really remember what it sounded
00:06:47
like, but Jesse found another thing and it
was a piece of audio.
00:06:55
And I wish I remembered what I heard
versus what she heard.
00:06:59
People had heard two different things when
they listened to the audio.
00:07:03
And so I'm listening and I'm like, this is
what I heard.
00:07:07
What I heard like wasn't really a word.
00:07:10
I don't wish I should have.
00:07:12
I should have had her send it to me so I
would be better prepared to talk about
00:07:16
this.
00:07:16
But so as we're talking about it, I'm
like, yeah, this is I hear this and she
00:07:20
goes, I hear this and it was two different
words, but she's like, well, what did it
00:07:24
sound like to you?
00:07:25
And so when I voiced what it sounded like
to me, it was like this grass, this raspy
00:07:32
high pitch voice.
00:07:34
And she's like, what?
00:07:36
Because she heard a completely different.
00:07:40
Like it wasn't high -pitched.
00:07:41
It wasn't raspy.
00:07:42
It was like a real normal a Normal
sounding voice that was saying a different
00:07:47
word than what I was hearing So if we can
have our perceptions be so much different
00:07:53
based on Something that like I'm listening
to and I'm like I'm a hundred percent sure
00:07:59
that that's what I'm hearing and that it
sounds like this But she is hearing
00:08:03
something completely different and even
the tone of voice is different.
00:08:06
If you think about the dress
00:08:08
she's seeing a completely different color
than I am.
00:08:12
And apparently it's almost like 50 -50.
00:08:14
Half of the people see it one way and half
of the people see it another.
00:08:18
And what I find interesting about it is
people are arguing about it, but how can
00:08:23
you argue about what someone else is
perceiving?
00:08:27
I mean, it's just crazy.
00:08:29
So that's sort of how I think about all
arguments.
00:08:40
Checking my bullet points here, I'm just
gonna.
00:08:50
So I have a section in my notes here
that's about humility in argumentation.
00:08:56
It's not even my word.
00:08:58
Okay, whatever.
00:09:00
But it's, I'm big on humility to a certain
extent.
00:09:04
I mean, you should be confident in all
that.
00:09:06
Actually, sorry, that's not even related,
but.
00:09:10
Whatever, I'm gonna cut that out.
00:09:14
So this segment I have here is about
humility.
00:09:18
So this, I'll go back to the how to win
friends and influence people.
00:09:22
So Dale Carnegie wrote, you know, starting
off a phrase like, you know, I may be
00:09:28
wrong, but here's how I see it, or here's
what I believe to be true.
00:09:34
And so by doing that, you're automatically
creating.
00:09:37
a much more open conversation.
00:09:39
So like I, I tend to, I tend to get pretty
bothered, not bothered, but I mean, I
00:09:47
don't feel very good about a conversation
when somebody is coming at me in a way
00:09:50
that's like,
00:09:54
This is how it is.
00:09:55
And when I think about what it is they're
saying, I know that there's some opinion
00:10:01
involved.
00:10:01
So it kind of bothers me a little bit
because I feel like the only way to really
00:10:07
move forward in the conversation is to
contradict what that person's saying.
00:10:10
And if they don't seem like they have the
humility to say, Hey, this is how I see
00:10:16
it.
00:10:16
This is, this is how I see the best way to
do this.
00:10:18
I might be wrong, but this is, you know, I
believe this would be the best way.
00:10:22
What do you think?
00:10:23
Like think about that versus we should do
it this way.
00:10:27
This is the right way to do it.
00:10:28
Like how would you perceive that?
00:10:30
I think I personally would rather do just
about anything else than argue with
00:10:37
somebody.
00:10:37
I'm not a fan.
00:10:39
And so when somebody states something like
that, I don't really want to participate
00:10:45
in the conversation.
00:10:46
And I think a lot of people are like that
as well.
00:10:48
And I, I'm sure of it because Dale
Carnegie wrote a book.
00:10:52
about how to get along with people better.
00:10:54
If you haven't heard about this book or
read it, I think everybody should read
00:10:58
this book.
00:10:59
It's just a, I know the title sounds kind
of weird, maybe a little bit, but, how to
00:11:05
win friends and influence people.
00:11:06
What it's really about is just how to talk
to people and how to communicate with
00:11:10
people better.
00:11:11
A lot of it's about, you know, seeing
things from the other person's
00:11:16
perspective.
00:11:16
And so this is very related to that.
00:11:18
So if you're,
00:11:18
If you come at it and say, hey, I might be
wrong about this, but this is how I see
00:11:22
it.
00:11:22
This is how I feel like is the best way to
do it.
00:11:25
Or, you know, I feel like we should head
in this direction.
00:11:28
I don't know.
00:11:28
I'm having trouble thinking of specific
things, but you could probably tie that to
00:11:33
any argument.
00:11:34
And it creates a better starting point for
the conversation.
00:11:40
It also demonstrates intellectual
humility.
00:12:31
So my understanding of what intellectual
intellectual human, my understanding,
00:12:38
okay, okay, okay.
00:12:39
This video shit's kind of throwing me off
a little.
00:12:50
So my understanding of intellectual
humility is understanding the limitations
00:12:55
of your knowledge and openness to other
ideas.
00:13:02
I think we would all get along a lot
better if we were to demonstrate more of
00:13:07
that.
00:13:08
Because if you think about it, like I was
saying, people are gonna be much more open
00:13:14
to have a conversation with somebody
that's willing to see things from the
00:13:18
other person's perspective.
00:13:20
And so right now, I don't know if it's
just the perception of things because you
00:13:25
know, the internet puts all this stuff out
there and we're able to see all this kind
00:13:29
of stuff.
00:13:29
But like, it seems like the division
between like political ideas or social
00:13:35
issues and stuff like that.
00:13:38
There's like a hard divide in this
argument.
00:13:42
The way you see people arguing with each
other is they're sort of refusing to see
00:13:46
the other person's side.
00:13:48
And.
00:13:50
you know, I don't know how we're supposed
to get anywhere when it comes to that kind
00:13:53
of stuff.
00:13:54
So I tend to never get involved in those
kind of arguments.
00:13:57
Like I have my opinions, but like I'm not
trying to change anybody's mind.
00:14:02
I'll state my opinion if somebody asks for
it, but I'm not going to try to tell you
00:14:06
what to think or what to believe.
00:14:08
That's totally up to you.
00:15:05
So along the lines of, you know, getting
along with people better and being, having
00:15:10
a more constructive conversation than sort
of arguing your point and not being open
00:15:14
to, to hearing the other person's
perspective.
00:15:17
You know, approaching things like that, I
feel like is good for personal growth.
00:15:21
Cause if you think about it, if you feel
like you're right all the time, then how
00:15:25
are you going to learn anything?
00:15:26
So, you know, if you're, if you're
approaching life in general as like, this
00:15:31
is how I see things to be, but I might be
wrong.
00:15:34
So I'm open to receiving other information
that might change my mind.
00:15:38
I think that's, I don't know.
00:15:40
I can't really see any other way to, to go
about it.
00:15:43
And there's some stuff that I have strong
opinions about, but you know, again, I
00:15:49
can't really like one of the things that
comes up from time to time is veganism.
00:15:53
People will ask me like, why, why are you
vegan?
00:15:56
And I'll tell people like, I'll say, you
know, that's just the way I see it.
00:16:01
You know, like,
00:16:04
I personally don't want to eat an animal.
00:16:06
Like that's, that's my thing.
00:16:08
Like I used to, I used to do it.
00:16:09
I used to eat steaks and barbecue and do
all that shit.
00:16:13
But over time I became, I started having
more and more of a problem with doing
00:16:18
that, but I can't sit in front of
somebody, even though that's how I feel.
00:16:23
And that's what I feel is right for me.
00:16:26
I can't tell you that that's right for
you.
00:16:28
I, I'm not going to argue that with you.
00:16:30
Like, I'm not going to argue that with
anybody.
00:16:32
And so it's funny, like,
00:16:34
when I see things online and it's like,
you know, talking shit about vegans
00:16:38
because they're like forcing their
opinions on people and like I can
00:16:44
understand that from both sides.
00:16:46
I mean, like if somebody feels very
strongly that we shouldn't be eating
00:16:48
animals, you know, I can understand them
trying to spread awareness and all that
00:16:53
stuff.
00:16:54
Not so much ramming your opinion down
people's throats.
00:16:56
But it's one of those things that I think
about a lot.
00:16:59
And whenever I get into these
conversations with people and they asked
00:17:02
me why,
00:17:03
I always feel like I have to, well, not
have to, but, but I like coming at it from
00:17:08
that standpoint because I do understand
that like, even though I choose to not eat
00:17:15
animals, it doesn't mean that things
aren't dying for my food because like, you
00:17:21
can't grow shit without like doing shit to
the ground.
00:17:25
And you know, there's all kinds of shit
that has to happen.
00:17:27
So there's no real safe way to.
00:17:32
Live any kind of like whatever lifestyle
you want to live without having some kind
00:17:37
of damage being done Unless you just
didn't exist anymore, and I don't even
00:17:41
know if that's I don't know.
00:17:43
Maybe that's taking it too far, but I
Can't argue that I can I can only say that
00:17:48
that's my own shit And that's how I feel
and I don't I don't feel right eating an
00:17:54
animal if you're eating a steak in front
of me I'm not gonna sit here judging you.
00:17:58
That's like That's your that's your shit
you
00:18:01
your worldview is your worldview.
00:18:03
I don't have to participate in it.
00:18:04
And you don't have to you don't have to
participate in my shit either.
00:18:07
And we can get along just fine.
00:18:09
You know, it's it's
00:18:13
I don't know.
00:18:14
I just don't like, I don't like that
whole, what is it?
00:18:18
The just super hard stance on shit.
00:18:21
Like if you're like torturing an animal,
yeah, go fuck yourself.
00:18:24
I'll take a hard stance on that.
00:18:25
If you're fucking with kids and some, you
know, you know what I'm saying?
00:18:31
Like wood chipper, like I'll take a hard
stance on that.
00:18:36
There's certain things, certain things
that I think are obvious, but
00:18:43
For most other things, I think you could
take a stance like, Hey, I might be wrong
00:18:47
about this.
00:18:48
Even if I feel strongly that I don't want
to eat animals.
00:18:51
That's how I think.
00:18:53
That's how I feel.
00:18:54
But I might not be right about that.
00:18:57
I think I am but I'm right for me.
00:19:00
You know, I mean, shit, I got I got a
little sidetracked.
00:19:05
That was a good example of this kind of
thing.
00:19:07
Like, and I try to exercise exactly what I
read, learn from that book.
00:19:12
when I'm talking about things like that,
because I know most of the time the people
00:19:16
that I'm talking to are people that eat
meat.
00:19:19
And, you know, I rarely, in fact, I don't
even remember ever having those things
00:19:28
that you see online, like people talking
shit, like, I'd eat, I'd eat like a
00:19:32
fucking animal right in front of you.
00:19:34
Like I don't run into those people, you
know?
00:19:36
So I've never, I never experienced that.
00:19:38
But I think even that I wouldn't really.
00:19:43
I don't know.
00:19:43
I don't feel like I would want to argue
I'd be like, Hey, that's your shit, man.
00:19:47
You know, I don't know why you care what I
eat.
00:19:50
Anyway, I don't know.
00:19:51
This is kind of getting off the rails.
00:20:03
So just to summarize the whole idea is
that like you can always be wrong no
00:20:07
matter how much you read, no matter how
much you learn and all this stuff, even if
00:20:10
you were there during the shit, you could
still be perceiving things differently
00:20:14
than other people.
00:20:15
So to approach it in a way like, Hey, I
might be wrong.
00:20:19
This is how I see it kind of things like
that.
00:20:22
It's going to demonstrate humility and
it's going to make the conversation
00:20:25
easier.
00:20:27
I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot in
this episode, but I don't know, we'll see
00:20:31
how it comes out in the edit.
00:20:33
But, you know, I think there's also
something to be said about being confident
00:20:37
in your view, you know, so like, you could
still use this approach and say like, you
00:20:41
know what, like, I understand that I could
be wrong, but you know, it's, it's pretty,
00:20:47
pretty likely that I'm not going to change
my mind on this.
00:20:50
I believe strongly that this is how it is,
but still be open to hear the other
00:20:55
person's side and be like, you know, I
don't know.
00:20:58
It's hard to like kind of get into this
kind of thing without actual.
00:21:02
examples but I think being confident in
your stance is perfectly fine too but at
00:21:08
the same time still understand that like
you could be wrong and you know
00:21:21
I just find it an easier way to navigate
life and deal with people.
00:21:26
So anyway, appreciate you tuning in,
tuning in.
00:21:29
I don't know.
00:21:31
I have a bunch of ideas for this audio
video shit and I'll get better.
00:21:37
I got my shit set up and.
00:21:43
I have some ideas also to bring stuff into
the field like I was talking about before.
00:21:47
I've reached out to several people for
some interviews, so hopefully we'll get
00:21:50
some of those going soon.
00:21:52
And yeah, that's it.
00:21:53
All right, I appreciate your time and
thank you very much.